CR 025: Shirley Neal on Celebrating Blackness in Pop Culture
The author-producer discusses her new book, “AfroCentric Style.”
Shirley Neal has spent her career amplifying Black history and its influence on pop culture. Through her work as an award-winning television producer, documentarian, journalist, ghostwriter, and television executive, Neal has brought stories of entertainment, Africa, and Black culture to the page and screen. Her latest project is AfroCentric Style: A Celebration of Blackness & Identity in Pop Culture—a gorgeous collection of photos and text that reflect on the Black individuals, movements, and moments that have impacted mainstream media.
“Pop culture and Black culture are passions of mine,” Neal says. “Pop culture is around us so much now, and it’s so popular and so infused with Blackness. I wanted people to not just read about Beyoncé or read about a fashion designer, and not appreciate that there’s more to gain from it about our Black history.”
Neal adds that the project was a learning experience for her, as well. “It was fun to find trending pop culture moments and [ask], ‘What can I draw from this that will help somebody to learn more about our history and our identity?’” she says. “It became like a treasure hunt. Every time something came up, I’d say, ‘What can I draw from this that’ll help somebody appreciate what this is all about, in terms of our culture and history?’ I didn’t want it to be just for a Black audience. I wanted everyone to say, ‘Wow, I didn’t know that’ or ‘I forgot about that.’”
Neal recently spoke with me over Zoom about the creation of the book, what she hopes readers will take away from it, and the stories she discovered during the writing process.
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SANDRA EBEJER: Your book is beautiful. Congratulations! What made you decide to take on this project?
SHIRLEY NEAL: It actually started out as a different book. My specialty as a TV producer has always been Black culture and Black identity, and I’ve spent a lot of time in Africa. I helped launch the Africa Channel, a cable network, and I really wanted to write a book about my travels and about Black identity, because so many people were starting to flock to Africa to trace their roots. And I had a TV series on BET called Living with Soul. So what I wanted to do is create a book that married the two—a lifestyle, home design book [interwoven] with my travels throughout Africa, so people can learn how to infuse home design with African culture. And by sharing my stories in Africa, then they could get African history, and they can learn more about Black identity. So it was really going to be a book about infusing Black culture and appreciating Black identity. Then as I started working with my agent, she said, “You know, there’s more to it here. Maybe that’s your second book, but how about this?” She started quizzing me about my interests, and when she realized it was very much about pop culture and identity and Black culture and Blackness, then that idea morphed into this book, a celebration of Blackness and identity in pop culture.
There is a lot of information in this book. Was there anything you learned that surprised you in the research process?
Oh, yeah! A lot of stories. One of my chapters is “Raymond & Race on the Runway.” I knew very little about this designer, Kerby Jean-Raymond. I stumbled across something on him and the more I dug deep, I thought, “This guy is my whole book.” Everything that he does in fashion and on his runway displays has to do with Black culture. It has to do with Black history. I didn’t know anything about Ota Benga, who was the African pygmy who was brought into this country and [put] on display in a monkey cage in New York. I didn’t know that history, but through this modern-day viral designer, I was able to learn something. And I thought, “Well, if that was fascinating to me, let me share that with others.” Not just who this guy was, but what it means to our culture. What does it say about putting a Black man in a cage for exhibition? So there are many stories like that that I discovered, and it made me dig deeper.
The book has hundreds of images, many of them iconic. Was it difficult to get the rights to them? Were there any that you wanted but were unable to get?
Absolutely. There were many that I wanted. The book would be so much thicker. But as you say, licensing is an issue. People forget that when you post photos online, there’s a little leeway. When you’re putting it in a book, you have to get every kind of license out there, and that was very difficult. I worked with a young lady, Desiréia Valteau, who had been with me in production. She worked with me on various video productions, and she was a researcher. She helped me with a lot of this. We’d meet just about every other day, and we’d have our wish list, and we’d go out to all of these people and make deals and try to see who we could work with that shared the passion for this book.
It was very expensive. That’s why you don’t see a lot of books like this. Thankfully, we had a lot of licensors who appreciated the project and waived fees and gave [the image] to us complimentary. But trying to research and find some of the photos? A daunting task.
When you embarked on this project, how did you narrow down what you wanted to include in the book? Because there are so many different ways you could take this topic.
An early publisher had a say in that. Right now, this book is [about] fashion, hair, and beauty. Initially, with the first book proposal that went out, it covered Black art, design, and a lot of other areas. We receive early feedback [saying], “That’s way too much. You won’t be able to afford it with the licensing. Maybe have a second book. Right now, what do you care about? What are you passionate about?” And that’s what came up here. I was most passionate about fashion and creative expression. Hair was important for me because as a Black woman, I can recall so many stories growing up that are still affecting a lot of young kids who have self-identity issues with their hair. I thought, “I really have to cover that.” That was a no-brainer. What I like in this book is it helps Black women of all ages appreciate the history of our hair and how we now can accept what others have been copying that played with our self-esteem for so many years.
I try in the book to also put my stories in, so that people see they’re not alone in the discovery process, and then by showing celebrities going through the same issues. And I wanted it to have all views. I wanted it to be interesting to those who aren’t Black. I wanted them to see what we go through and have an appreciation for our heritage and our identity. And I think these three topics made it easy. There’ll be another book, or there’ll be a blog, there’ll be a podcast, but right now, these were the issues—hair, fashion and beauty—that I was most passionate about.
You just touched upon something that I was going to ask about. The book isn’t a memoir, but you do include stories about yourself and your life alongside facts and information about notable celebrities and historical moments. Was it difficult to balance these various components?
That was easy. My editor, Patrik Bass, said that one of the things he loved about the book was my voice and that I did weave in my story. He says it felt like a girlfriend talking to her friend or her family. It was very comfortable. I wasn’t preaching. And that’s my intent. I really wanted people to feel like, “I know her.” So, that actually was easy. That is my voice. That’s how I present myself in articles and books, and you get a bit of that even in my productions that I produce.
You write in the acknowledgements that you had some help in figuring out what topics were of most interest to younger generations. Were you surprised by what Millennials and Gen Zers are interested in when it comes to these topics?
I’ve met young people who speak about things like respectability fashion, and it was different in my day than it is today. So that I had to do a little research with. I did have to go out and speak to some young people and make sure I could respond to their perceptions in this book, and not just make it history, but have them also appreciate the history. Because back in the day with the marches, they were told to dress a certain way to get respect, and now that term means something different. When you hear “respectability fashion,” it’s more of a negative. It sounds like administrations are forcing you to dress a certain way. It was a choice back in the day, and now they’re forcing you. So when they hear that term, it’s a negative, and I want to show them it meant something different back then. That was important back then to do that. It did take a little extra focus grouping, if you will, to make sure I was understanding what young people really felt.
What do you want readers to get from this book?
I want them to, first of all, be entertained. I tried to capture a lot of pop culture viral moments and stories, so I want them to look through it and enjoy the pictures. But I want them to walk away saying, “I learned something. I didn’t know that.” Or “Oh, yeah! I forgot about that.” That is absolutely my mission. I am not trying to write a historical encyclopedia about pop culture and its connection to history. I want people to have an awareness and appreciate that, and learn something in a comfortable, fun way. Pop culture is fun for multiple generations, and I want people to learn as they’re being entertained.
I’m always interested in hearing who inspires or influences the work of the people I interview. Who has influenced your work throughout your career?
That’s a good question. Doctor Gina Paige, who is the co-founder of AfricanAncestry.com, is very impressive to me because her whole focus is on Black identity. I’m an advisory board member for her company, and working with her helped me to make the connection of Black identity to a larger demographic. When I think of Black identity, it used to be, “This is who I am as a Black person.” But she helped me grow that perception. I think she was one of the biggest influences for me to want to make sure that’s part of this storytelling. It’s not just about the culture. It’s not just, what can we learn about Black history? It’s what can we learn about Black identity? Knowing where we came from is key to knowing who we are. She pushes that a lot, and I weaved a lot of that through this book, so she was a major influence.
What would you say has been the most rewarding aspect of working on this book?
When I hear people say, “I learned so much” or “I didn’t know that.” Every time I talk to someone, they’re saying the same thing: “Wow. This is great! I learned so much!” It’s Black, white, young, old—I mean, just as I’m telling you that, it gives me goose pimples. That is the greatest reward, because that’s exactly what I set out to do.
To learn more about Shirley Neal, visit her website.
To purchase AfroCentric Style, click here.
This interview has been edited for clarity and length.
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