CR 002: Renee Stahl on Making Music for Kids of All Ages
An interview with the singer-songwriter on working in the children's music realm, covering Led Zeppelin for little ones, and the healing nature of song circles.
Although singer-songwriter Renee Stahl had already recorded and released two solo albums, she became widely known for her children’s music in 2007, when she and Jeremy Toback released their debut album, It’s a Big World, under the name Renee & Jeremy. A collection of lush, harmonic lullabies, It’s a Big World quickly became a hit with parents, who found that the kid-friendly tunes were just as enjoyable for adults.
In the years since, Renee & Jeremy have released four additional studio albums featuring a mix of original songs alongside folky, family-friendly covers of hits by the Pixies, Led Zeppelin, Madonna, Guns N’ Roses, and Steve Miller Band, among others. In addition, Stahl has released two Renee & Friends albums, on which she collaborates with a notable array of talent, including Maya Rudolph, Lisa Loeb, and Men at Work’s Colin Hay.
All of this work has put her solidly in the children’s music genre, though she admits that the label isn’t quite right for the type of work she does. “I need another word to describe [our music],” she says. “We call it ‘indie folk’ now. We've never really fit into the children’s music category. We do make children's music, but music for children of all ages.”
Lately, Stahl has been busy with a wide variety of projects. In addition to serving as music supervisor on the Peter Dinklage comedy American Dreamer (directed by Stahl’s husband, Paul Dektor), she is studying Reiki, leading song circles, and writing and recording new singles. Her latest song, “Text Me When You Land,” was released earlier this week in memory of her mother, who passed away last year.
Writing the song was, she says, a crucial component to the grieving process. “My writing and my creativity is really how I heal,” she says. “I don't know how I could get through [my mother’s death] if I hadn't written a song and sang through it. It’s really a love letter to my mother and our relationship. I feel like I just need to do that as an artist, express myself with my songwriting. That feels healing for me.”
From her home in Santa Barbara, Stahl recently spoke with me over Zoom about the early days of Renee & Jeremy, her love for harmony, and how Jonatha Brooke inspires her work.
SANDRA EBEJER: How did your music career begin? Were you musical as a child?
RENEE STAHL: I was very musical as a child. I was always singing with a hairbrush in the mirror. When I was seven, I joined this choir called the Singing Angels in Cleveland, Ohio, which is where I was raised. I started doing musical theater when I was about 10, and I started doing solos in high school with my glee club.
Were your parents musical?
They were very musical. Not like playing an instrument, but always interested in music and jazz. Yeah, both of them. Just big music fans.
The first Renee & Jeremy album saved me when my son was an infant and I was home on maternity leave and needed something to keep me from losing my mind.
I love that you said that because that feeling of being at home alone with your child, it’s such a lonely experience. It’s just you and this person that you’re supposed to take care of, and it can be crazy making because they can’t talk. I'm really happy that comforted you.
Your music is enjoyable for adults as well as children. I could easily listen to your songs on my own without my kid there and not feel as though I’m listening to children’s music. How did you launch this side of your career?
I was 35 weeks pregnant and was about to go to my solo show and I started spotting. I went to my midwife and I said I was going to my show. And she goes, “Oh, Renee. Not only are you not going to be able to do your show, but I’m going to put you on bed rest for two weeks.” That was like a prison sentence for me because I’m very active and I like to be busy. Jeremy came over while I was on bed rest and we wrote It’s a Big World. We didn't even have an intention. We just started writing songs, and we wrote songs that we would want to listen to. So I really wrote for my unborn child and the love of a parent to a child. Jeremy had a three-month-old, so we were both new parents. It was such a loving time for him to come sit next to the bed and write. And then two weeks before [my daughter] was born we recorded it in her nursery at my house in L.A. That’s how Renee & Jeremy started.
When it comes to doing covers, how do you pick the songs? I never would have imagined Led Zeppelin’s “Whole Lotta Love,” for example, as a folky children’s tune, but you and Jeremy made it work.
It took a long time for us to find songs that lyrically spoke to us, to what we believe in, which is universal love. We want everyone to enjoy it. It has to speak as if we had written it. One of my favorite things that we’ve done is take another song and make it our own. You listen to it and you’re like, “What is this? I know I know this song.” We would look for obscure, fun songs like [the Red Hot Chili Peppers’] “Give It Away”—as long as it spoke to our values and who we are as people and what we believe in.
One of my favorite songs of yours is “You Were Meant to Be,” which features Glen Phillips of Toad the Wet Sprocket. As a parent, it makes me so emotional every time I hear it, and your voices meld beautifully together. How did you come to know and work with Glen?
My manager at the time was managing Glen. I was looking for people who I really loved and admired to do songs with us. He was in the middle of a divorce, and Rich [Jacques, Renee & Jeremy’s producer] and I went over to his house in Santa Barbara. We said we were making a children’s record and people’s first reaction when you hear children’s record is “Wheels on the Bus,” kids, make new friends, that whole thing. So when we went to Glen’s house, he thought we were going to make a children’s song. I remember I went into the bathroom and I came back out and said, “Why don't we write a song called ‘You Were Meant to Be’?” He was moving through a lot in his life. It just came so quickly and so beautifully. We were just kind of using what he was going through.
And we can all relate with [the idea of] you were meant to be. Like, everyone has a purpose. Everyone is meant to be here. Just letting kids know, especially nowadays with all the depression and anxiety, that someone’s here for you and you’re meant to be here, it’s just such a beautiful sentiment.
[Glen’s] a lovely person. He started leading song circles. It’s a call and response where he would teach a song and people would respond. He did one of the songs the other night at his show. It’s “Dwelling in the present moment / I know that this is the only moment.” It's a Thich Nhat Hanh quote. I took a class from his teacher, Lisa Littlebird. I started leading song circles because of Glen.
That was something I was going to ask about. I was looking through your Instagram and saw that you mentioned her course. I thought it was interesting because I feel like with certain types of creatives, such as musicians and songwriters, people assume that you don’t need any professional development; you just know what to do. I love that you took a course in something to gain more professional experience and knowledge.
I’m constantly hungry for creativity and information. I love learning. I’m constantly wanting to keep honing my craft, and song circles really appealed to me. I love being with people who think they can’t sing. A lot of people come to me and they’re like, “I can’t sing in front of you! You’re a singer.” But you can. Because it’s not a performance; it’s a community of people singing together. Where do people sing together? At a concert, in church, in the car, in your family, but to sing in a community? It's just so beautiful. And you don’t have to sound good. No one’s judging you.
You wrote in a social media post that “harmony is a language. I speak it, I hear it everywhere, in everything.” Do you find yourself creating all the time? Is it something that is just part of your life?
Yes, always, and I get blocks as well. What comes to me very easily are melodies and harmonies. Sometimes lyrically I can get stuck. But harmony—I have to say it’s like my essence. I can turn on the computer and [sings], “Ding, ding.” I just hear harmony. The leaf blower will be outside, and I’ll harmonize with it. It’s just everywhere. And I never studied theory for music; I never really studied harmony. I’m studying it more now because it interests me. I don’t understand how it works, but I understand how it feels. And it just feels really good to me.
I was intrigued by one of your newer songs, “Harry, Save Us All,” which was inspired by Harry Styles. How did that song come about?
I went to his concert with my daughters. Somebody played me the song “Treat People with Kindness.” That was my first entrance into the Harry Styles world.
I’m a huge Audrey Hepburn fan. I think why I respond to her is her beautiful, kind, innocent heart. She has this sense of wonder in her. I’ve always been a huge fan of hers and there’s something about him that reminded me of her. I think he’s an incredible singer [and a] beautiful, generous, loving, kind person. At the concert, somebody hurt themselves in the front area, in the pit, and he stopped the show. He took time out of his concert to make sure one of his fans was [okay]. It was not ego. Also, the feeling when I went to the concert—there were grandmas, there were kids, black, white, gay, straight, old, young. I say it in my song, “Every shape, color, and size.” I felt like I was in a nightclub of love.
I just love what he’s promoting. The world is a very crazy place right now. We need leaders. We need more people who can speak to many. I know it’s a lot of pressure to put on Harry Styles, but we need people like him to be able to speak to many. So I just thought, “Harry, save us all.”
You mentioned to me prior to the interview that Jonatha Brooke has been a big influence on your work, and I can definitely hear some of the similarities between her music and yours. Are there specific ways that she’s influenced you?
I remember hearing the Story [with Jonatha Brooke] for the first time in New York City. I heard the song, and I was like, “Who is that??” I love her overlapping melodies. I love her voice and her dissonance. I love when it’s dissonant and then it resolves. Her breath control is incredible. I really admire her songwriting, her harmony, and her melodies.
In preparing for this interview, I came across Jeremy Toback’s website and discovered he also works as a treatment and pitch writer for various productions. Are there any side gigs or passion projects that you’ve done separate from your music?
One thing I’ve started doing—it’s not really a career and I haven’t charged anybody because I’m new at it—is I became a Reiki practitioner. I find it to be such a beautiful, magical mystery of like, how is this working?
I’ll share a little story. My husband hurt his knee playing tennis. We went on a date to a yoga studio where they did a Reiki sound bath. And the woman said at the beginning of the class, “Here are some tarot cards. If you want hands-on healing, put your card up. If you don't want me to touch you, put your card down.” My husband doesn’t really love people he doesn’t know touching him. [When] we left, I said, “How was that for you?” And he said, “It was okay. But she touched me.” And I said, “Well, was your card up or down?” And he said, “I didn't take a card.” She just went over and put her hands on his knees. The next day, he came to me and said, “You're not going to believe this, but my knee is better.” So I decided to take a class, just so I can understand what is happening, how are they doing this, how is it so healing? I wanted to learn from this ancient Japanese tradition. So that’s something I’m interested in and taking more classes and studying and infusing that with my song circles and my sound healing. It’s very inspiring to me.
What else do you have coming out in the near future?
I don't know. I’m really just doing one song at a time right now. I don’t have a full record. I get really frustrated with myself and my creativity sometimes. I have so many ideas that I just get overwhelmed. I’m trying to slow down and do one thing at a time. So, for right now, I have the song coming out [“Text Me When You Land”] and two song circles. I don’t know what the future holds. I’d like to travel more with my music. One of my wishes is I really want to sing with an orchestra. That’s a desire of mine, to be surrounded by all of these instruments and harmonizing together.
I have the desire to record more on my own in my true authentic [voice], sharing what I want to say and putting that out into the world. Not because I want anything in return, but just because I want to give and I want to share. And if people like that, it really means a lot to me. It feels like I’m doing something that’s helpful in the world.
To learn more about Renee’s work, find her on Instagram.
This interview has been edited for clarity and length.
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